Intervista a Jeremy Rifkin

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An interview with Jeremy Rifki

The Blog interviewed Jeremy Rifkin, world-known author. Among its books: "The Hydrogen Economy".
The world as we know it is changing fast.
Oil is almost up.
Energy will have two characteristics:
renewable, like Sun and wind, and distributed.
Each one of us will be able to create its own energy and share it with other on the grid.
"So, now at the sunset [of the second industrial revolution] we have four major crisis that are very, very critical.
First, the price of energy is going up dramatically on world market as we move toward peak oil production in the world.
Food prices have doubled last year, because so much of the food production relays on fossil fuels.
As we reach peak oil production, prices go up, inflation goes up, the global economy stalls, we have recession and we have people who can’t afford to put food on the table.
Peak oil is when half the global oil production is used up.
And when half the oil is used up and you are on the top of that Bell curve, that is the end of the oil era. Because the prices are simply unaffordable for the second half of the oil curve.
So, when do we peak?
The optimists, the International Energy Agency and others, say: Well maybe, we peak somewhere around 2025-2035.
On the other hand, in the last half a dozen year, some of the greatest geologists in the world, had been using more sophisticated computer models and looking at the oil and gas reserve figures, their models now suggest that we will peak with oil production somewhere between 2010 and 2020.
One of the world’s great energy experts said that we already peaked in 2005.
Now, the North Sea peaked three years ago, Mexico, the fourth wide resource producer peaks in 2010, Russia probably peaks around 2010.
Now, in my book, The Hydrogen Economy, I spent a lot of time on this question of peak oil.
I don’t know who is right: the optimists or the pessimists.
But it doesn’t make any difference.That’s a very small window.
The second crisis related to the sunset of energy regime is increasing political instability in the oil producing countries.
We need to understand that one out of three civil wars in world today, one third, is occurring in the oil producing countries.
So, if we peak these countries as our hotspot today, image what is going to be like in 2009-2010-2011 and 2012 etc.
Everybody wants the oil. The oil is getting more expensive.
There is a drying in supply and we are going to see more military and political conflicts in the oil producing countries.
And finally, there is the question of climate change.
If we simply take the European Union’s targets for Co2 reduction, and the EU is the most aggressive in the World, even if we go with the EU targets, and China, India and other countries don’t want to do that, we can go up 6° Celsius in this century and - this is quote from the scientists - "and the end of civilization as we know it".
Let me say that what we need now is an economic plan that may be ambitious enough, and maybe powerful enough, to address the enormity of peak oil and climate change.
And so, let me say that the great economic revolutions in history occur when humans change the way they organize the energy of the Earth- number one - and then - number two - when we change the way we communicate with each other to organize these new energy revolutions.
In the early twentieth century the telegraph and telephone communication revolutions converged with oil and the internal combustion engine to give us the second industrial revolution.
Right now we are at the sunset of that second industrial revolution.
So the question is, how do we open the door to the third industrial revolution.
We can now communicate peer to peer, one to one, one to many, many to one, many to many.
I am communicating with you now over the Internet.
So this distributed communication revolution - that is the key word: distributed - this flat distributed open source communication revolution is just now beginning to converge with a new distributed energy revolution.
And the coming together distributed communication and organized distributed energy, that is going to give us the third industrial revolution.
Distributed energies are found in the backyard.
They are all over Italy, all over the world:
the Sun shines everywhere on the Planet, the wind blow across the Earth, if we live on a coast we have ocean tides and waves, underneath the ground we have thermal heat.
We have small hydro, with water.
So, these are distributed energies, they are literally found everywhere, so the European Union is committed to pillar one of the four pillar of the third industrial revolution, which is distributed renewable energy.
Number one: we are going to renewable energies, they are distributed.
The European Union has made that commitment: 20% renewables.
Number two: we are going to buildings as positive power plants.
Millions of buildings that collect their energy. And the first building as power plant is already up.They already exist.
Then, pillar three: how do we store this renewable energy.
Because the Sun is not always shining, even in the beautiful Italy, the wind is not always blowing, and you can have water tables down because of drought for hydroelectricity.
So pillar three is: we are going to introduce storage technology and the main storage is going to be hydrogen.
Hydrogen stores renewable energy the way digital stores media.
Then pillar four: this is the last pillar. This is where that distributed communication revolution, that I mentioned earlier, connects with distributed renewable energy to create a third industrial revolution.
We take the same technology that we use for the Internet. It is identical. And the take the power grid of Italy and the EU and the World and we turn it into an inter-grid that acts just like the inter-net.
So that, when you and I and millions of others produce our own energy, just like we produce our own information out of our computers, we store our energy in hydrogen just like we store our media with digital, and then with a smart power grid manager we share the surplus across Italy and Europe on an InterGrid that acts like the Internet.
That is the third industrial revolution.
Let me say I work with the many of the leading power utilities companies in the world. I advise and consult.
Let me give you a business perspective, not an ideological perspective.
I don’t think nuclear power is going to be very significant in the future. I think it is essentially a dead-end and it would be a very poor course of action for any government.
Let me give you the reasons.
We don’t have Co2, with nuclear power.So, shouldn’t it be part of the solution for climate change? Alright?
Now, let us look at the numbers.
There are 439 nuclear power plants in the world today, it is all there is.They make up 5% of the energy that we create.That is all. These nuclear power plants are very old.
Has anyone in Italy, or in the world, really believed that we are even going to replace the exiting 439 power plants in the next twenty years?
But even if we did that, it gets back to that 5% of the energy. It will have no impact on climate change.
It is very well considered that if we want to impact climate change, nuclear would have to take up 20% of the energy. Just like renewables.
But, in order for nuclear power to be responsible of 20% of the energy, we have to put under construction three nuclear power plants every thirty days for the next sixty year.
Did you hear that?
That is two thousand power plants.
Three news one every thirty days for the next sixty years.
We don’t know how to get rid of nuclear waste.
We are sixty years into nuclear power. The industry told us sixty years ago: "build the power plants, then give us enough time, we will figure out a way to dispose nuclear waste".
Sixty years later, this industry is saying: "trust us again, we can do it". But the still don’t know how to get rid of the nuclear waste.
The International Atomic Energy Commission says we face potential uranium deficit, between 2025 and 2035, just for the existing 439 power plants that make up only 5% of the energy.
We could take the uranium we have and recycle it to plutonium.
But then we will have the threat of nuclear terrorism.
Do we really want plutonium all over the world in an age of potential terrorist attacks?
I think that is insane.
Then, finally, this is what all the people that watch this should discuss with their neighbours.
We don’t have that water.
This is something that utilities companies know, but the public doesn’t know.
Take France. France is the quintessential nuclear power company.Over 70% of their electricity comes from nuclear power plants.
Here is what the public does not know.
40% of all the water consumed in France last year went to cooling the nuclear reactors, for their nuclear industry.
40% of all the water in France.
You recall thee years ago, when all the elderly people died in France during the summer because of the air conditioning - they didn’t have it?
What you don’t know is there was not enough water to cool the nuclear reactors. So that nuclear reactors had to move down the amount of electricity they where putting out.
So where is Italy or any other country going to find the water? If France doesn’t even have it.
So, what we need to do is to democratize energy.
The third industrial revolution, this distributed revolution is power to the people. And for generation that grew up on the Internet this is the conclusion and completion of that revolution. Just like we can now rely on things like this Internet: we are now sitting and talking on the Internet at each other and you can have hundreds of thousand of people on the Internet and it is all free and you don’t have to rely on some centralized television network and it is all open source and you are sharing it. Is it correct?Why can’t we do that with energy?
Italy is the Saudi Arabia of renewable energy.
There is some much distributed renewable energy in your country, it frustrates me when I come to your country and I see that is not moving like Spain is moving, for example. Spain is moving aggressively into renewable energy. All across the regions.
For example. You have Sun.
You have so much Sun from Rome to Bari.
You have Sun.
You are a peninsula, you have wind coming in all the time.You have the ocean waves surrounding you on all sides. You have rich geothermal deposits in Tuscany. You have forestry waste up in Bolzano and Northern Italy.You have snow for hydro from the Alps.
You just are overflowing with renewable energy possibilities.
You are not using them. I don’t understand why.
I guess the bottom line is, what I would say to the Italian government is: what is your game plan?
If your only game plan is to stay on the old energies, then Italy will not be competitive and will not get the economic multiplier effect of moving into the door to a new economic revolution and will fall further and further behind other countries as we proceed into the twenty-first century.
But if Italy decides that it is important to move into the sunrise energies and industries of the third industrial revolution, the opportunities are enormous for Italy. And enormous for the citizens of Italy. I have been keeping in touch with what you have been doing with this website in the Internet now for a number of years, and I wish we had some voices like him [Beppe Grillo] in other countries.
That allows some many people to become engaged and it is instructive of the way we need to go.
Jeremy Rifkin

TESTI PARALLELI DALL'ITALIANO
IL BLOG DI BEPPE GRILLO
INTERVISTA A JEREMY RIFKIN
Inglese tratto da: http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/
Italiano tratto da: http://www.beppegrillo.it/
Data documento:25.06.2008
Questo testo di Beppe Grillo è riprodotto in accordo ai dettami della licenza
Attribuzione Non Commerciale - Non Opere Derivate 2.0 Italia

1	Intervista a Jeremy Rifkin	An interview with Jeremy Rifkin
2	Il blog ha intervistato Jeremy Rifkin, autore di fama mondiale, tra i suoi libri: "Economia all’idrogeno".	The Blog interviewed Jeremy Rifkin, world-known author. Among its books: "The Hydrogen Economy".
3	Il mondo che conosciamo sta cambiando in fretta.	The world as we know it is changing fast.
4	Il petrolio sta finendo.	Oil is almost up.
5	L’energia avrà due caratteristiche:	Energy will have two characteristics:
6	sarà rinnovabile, come il sole e il vento, e distribuita.	renewable, like Sun and wind, and distributed.
7	Ognuno di noi potrà creare la propria energia e metterla a disposizione degli altri in rete.	Each one of us will be able to create its own energy and share it with other on the grid.
8	"Ora, al tramonto [della seconda rivoluzione industriale] ci sono alcune situazioni davvero molto critiche.	"So, now at the sunset [of the second industrial revolution] we have four major crisis that are very, very critical.
9	Il prezzo dell’energia sta drammaticamente salendo e il mercato mondiale del petrolio si è appena avviato al suo picco di produzione.	First, the price of energy is going up dramatically on world market as we move toward peak oil production in the world.
10	I prezzi del cibo sono raddoppiati negli ultimi anni poiché la produzione di cibo è prevalentemente basata sui combustibili fossili.	Food prices have doubled last year, because so much of the food production relays on fossil fuels.
11	Appena raggiungeremo il picco della produzione di petrolio, i prezzi saliranno, l’economia globale ristagnerà, avremo recessione e ci saranno persone che non riusciranno a mettere in tavola qualcosa da mangiare.	As we reach peak oil production, prices go up, inflation goes up, the global economy stalls, we have recession and we have people who can’t afford to put food on the table.
12	Il "picco del petrolio" avviene quando si è usato metà del petrolio disponibile.	Peak oil is when half the global oil production is used up.
13	Quando questo avverrà, quando saremo all’apice di questa curva, saremo alla fine dell’era del petrolio perché il costo di estrazione non sarà più sostenibile.	And when half the oil is used up and you are on the top of that Bell curve, that is the end of the oil era. Because the prices are simply unaffordable for the second half of the oil curve.
14	Quando arriveremo al picco?	So, when do we peak?
15	L’ottimista agenzia internazionale per l’energia dice che ci arriveremo probabilmente attorno al 2025-2035.	The optimists, the International Energy Agency and others, say: Well maybe, we peak somewhere around 2025-2035.
16	D’altra parte negli ultimi anni alcuni dei più grandi geologi del mondo, utilizzando dei modelli matematici molto avanzati, rilevano che arriveremo al picco tra il 2010 e il 2020.	On the other hand, in the last half a dozen year, some of the greatest geologists in the world, had been using more sophisticated computer models and looking at the oil and gas reserve figures, their models now suggest that we will peak with oil production somewhere between 2010 and 2020.
17	Uno dei maggiori esperti sostiene che il picco è già stato raggiunto nel 2005.	One of the world’s great energy experts said that we already peaked in 2005.
18	Ora, il giacimento del Mare del Nord ha raggiunto il picco 3 anni fa. Il Messico, il quarto produttore mondiale, raggiungerà il picco nel 2010, come probabilmente la Russia.	Now, the North Sea peaked three years ago, Mexico, the fourth wide resource producer peaks in 2010, Russia probably peaks around 2010.
19	Nel mio libro, Economia all’idrogeno, ho speso molte parole su questa questione.	Now, in my book, The Hydrogen Economy, I spent a lot of time on this question of peak oil.
20	Io non so chi ha ragione, gli ottimisti o i pessimisti.	I don’t know who is right: the optimists or the pessimists.
21	Ma questo non fa alcuna differenza, è una piccolissima finestra.	But it doesn’t make any difference. That’s a very small window.
22	La seconda crisi legata al tramonto di questo regime energetico è l’aumento di instabilità politica nei Paesi produttori di petrolio.	The second crisis related to the sunset of energy regime is increasing political instability in the oil producing countries.
23	Dobbiamo capire che oggi un terzo delle guerre civili nel mondo è nei Paesi produttori di petrolio.	We need to understand that one out of three civil wars in world today, one third, is occurring in the oil producing countries.
24	Immaginate cosa accadrà nel 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 e così via.	So, if we peak these countries as our hotspot today, image what is going to be like in 2009-2010-2011 and 2012 etc.
25	Tutti vogliono il petrolio, il petrolio sta diventando sempre più costoso.	Everybody wants the oil. The oil is getting more expensive.
26	Ci saranno più conflitti politici e militari nei Paesi produttori.	There is a drying in supply and we are going to see more military and political conflicts in the oil producing countries.
27	Infine, c’è la questione dei cambiamenti climatici.	And finally, there is the question of climate change.
28	Se prendiamo gli obiettivi dell’Unione Europea sulla riduzione della Co2, e la UE è la più aggressiva del mondo in questo senso, anche se riuscissimo a raggiungere quegli obiettivi ma non facessero lo stesso India, Cina e altri Paesi, la temperatura aumenterà di 6°C in questo secolo e sarà la fine della civilizzazione come la conosciamo.	If we simply take the European Union’s targets for Co2 reduction, and the EU is the most aggressive in the World, even if we go with the EU targets, and China, India and other countries don’t want to do that, we can go up 6° Celsius in this century and - this is quote from the scientists - "and the end of civilization as we know it".
29	Lasciatemi dire che quello di cui abbiamo bisogno adesso è un piano economico che sia sufficientemente ambizioso ed efficace per gestire l’enormità del picco del petrolio e dei cambiamenti climatici.	Let me say that what we need now is an economic plan that may be ambitious enough, and maybe powerful enough, to address the enormity of peak oil and climate change.
30	Lasciatemi dire che le grandi rivoluzioni economiche accadono quando l’umanità cambia il modo di produrre l’energia, primo, e quando cambia il modo di comunicare, per organizzare questa rivoluzione energetica.	And so, let me say that the great economic revolutions in history occur when humans change the way they organize the energy of the Earth- number one - and then - number two - when we change the way we communicate with each other to organize these new energy revolutions.
31	All’inizio del XX secolo la rivoluzione del telegrafo e del telefono convergeva con quella del petrolio e della combustione interna, dando vita alla seconda rivoluzione industriale.	In the early twentieth century the telegraph and telephone communication revolutions converged with oil and the internal combustion engine to give us the second industrial revolution.
32	Ora siamo al tramonto di quella rivoluzione industriale.	Right now we are at the sunset of that second industrial revolution.
33	La domanda è: come aprire la porta alla terza rivoluzione industriale.	So the question is, how do we open the door to the third industrial revolution.
34	Oggi siamo in grado di comunicare peer to peer, uno a uno, uno a molti, molti a molti.	We can now communicate peer to peer, one to one, one to many, many to one, many to many.
35	Io sto comunicando con voi via Internet.	I am communicating with you now over the Internet.
36	Questa rivoluzione "distribuita"della comunicazione, questa è la parola chiave: "distribuita", questa rivoluzione "piatta", "equa" della comunicazione proprio ora sta cominciando a convergere con la rivoluzione della nuova energia distribuita.	So this distributed communication revolution - that is the key word: distributed - this flat distributed open source communication revolution is just now beginning to converge with a new distributed energy revolution.
37	La convergenza di queste due tecnologie può aprire la strada alla terza rivoluzione industriale.	And the coming together distributed communication and organized distributed energy, that is going to give us the third industrial revolution.
38	L’energia distribuita la troviamo dietro l’angolo.	Distributed energies are found in the backyard.
39	Ce n’è ovunque in Italia, ovunque nel mondo.	They are all over Italy, all over the world:
40	Il Sole sorge ovunque sul pianeta.Il vento soffia su tutta la Terra, se viviamo sulla costa abbiamo la forza delle onde. Sotto il terreno tutti abbiamo calore.	The Sun shines everywhere on the Planet, the wind blow across the Earth, if we live on a coast we have ocean tides and waves, underneath the ground we have thermal heat.
41	C’è il mini idroelettrico.	We have small hydro, with water.
42	Queste sono energie distribuite che si trovano ovunque. L’Unione Europea ha posto il primo pilastro della terza rivoluzione industriale, che sono le energie rinnovabili e distribuite.	So, these are distributed energies, they are literally found everywhere, so the European Union is committed to pillar one of the four pillar of the third industrial revolution, which is distributed renewable energy.
43	Primo, dobbiamo passare alle energie rinnovabili e distribuite.	Number one: we are going to renewable energies, they are distributed.
44	La UE ha fissato l’obiettivo al 20%.	The European Union has made that commitment: 20% renewables.
45	Secondo, dobbiamo rendere tutti gli edifici impianti di generazione di energia.	Number two: we are going to buildings as positive power plants.
46	Milioni di edifici che producono e raccolgono energia in un grande impianto di generazione. Questo già esiste.	Millions of buildings that collect their energy. And the first building as power plant is already up.They already exist.
47	Terzo pilastro: come accumuliamo questa energia?	Then, pillar three: how do we store this renewable energy.
48	Perché il Sole non splende sempre, nemmeno nella bellissima Italia.Il vento non soffia sempre e le centrali idroelettriche possono non funzionare nei periodi di siccità.	Because the Sun is not always shining, even in the beautiful Italy, the wind is not always blowing, and you can have water tables down because of drought for hydroelectricity.
49	Il terzo pilastro riguarda come raccogliamo questa energia e la principale forma di accumulo sarà l’idrogeno.	So pillar three is: we are going to introduce storage technology and the main storage is going to be hydrogen.
50	L’idrogeno può accumulare l’energia così come i supporti digitali contengono le informazioni multimediali.	Hydrogen stores renewable energy the way digital stores media.
51	Infine, il quarto pilastro, quando la comunicazione distribuita converge verso la rivoluzione energetica generando la terza rivoluzione industriale.	Then pillar four: this is the last pillar. This is where that distributed communication revolution, that I mentioned earlier, connects with distributed renewable energy to create a third industrial revolution.
52	Prendiamo la stessa tecnologia che usiamo per Internet, la stessa, e prendiamo la rete energetica italiana, europea e la rendiamo una grande rete mondiale, come Internet.	We take the same technology that we use for the Internet. It is identical. And the take the power grid of Italy and the EU and the World and we turn it into an inter-grid that acts just like the inter-net.
53	Quando io, voi e ognuno produrrà la sua propria energia come produciamo informazione grazie ai computer, la accumuliamo grazie all’idrogeno come i media con i supporti digitali, potremo condividere il surplus di produzione nella rete italiana, europea e globale nella "InterGrid", come condividiamo le informazioni in Internet.	So that, when you and I and millions of others produce our own energy, just like we produce our own information out of our computers, we store our energy in hydrogen just like we store our media with digital, and then with a smart power grid manager we share the surplus across Italy and Europe on an InterGrid that acts like the Internet.
54	Questa è la terza rivoluzione industriale.	That is the third industrial revolution.
55	Io lavoro con molte tra le più grandi aziende energetiche del mondo, come consulente.	Let me say I work with the many of the leading power utilities companies in the world. I advise and consult.
56	Lasciatemi fare una considerazione in termini di business, non in termini ideologici.	Let me give you a business perspective, not an ideological perspective.
57	Non credo che l’energia nucleare sarà significativa in futuro e credo che sia alla fine del suo corso e qualsiasi governo sbaglierebbe a investire nell’atomo.	I don’t think nuclear power is going to be very significant in the future. I think it is essentially a dead-end and it would be a very poor course of action for any government.
58	Vi spiego le ragioni.	Let me give you the reasons.
59	Non produciamo Co2 con gli impianti nucleari, quindi dovrebbe essere parte della soluzione ai problemi climatici.	We don’t have Co2, with nuclear power. So, shouldn’t it be part of the solution for climate change? Alright?
60	Ma guardiamo ai numeri.	Now, let us look at the numbers.
61	Ci sono 439 impianti nucleari al mondo, oggi, che producono solo il 5% dell’energia che consumiamo. Questi impianti sono molto vecchi.	There are 439 nuclear power plants in the world today, it is all there is.They make up 5% of the energy that we create.That is all. These nuclear power plants are very old.
62	C’è qualcuno in Italia o nel mondo che davvero crede che si possano rimpiazzare i 439 impianti che abbiamo oggi nei prossimi vent’anni.	Has anyone in Italy, or in the world, really believed that we are even going to replace the exiting 439 power plants in the next twenty years?
63	Anche se lo facessimo continueremmo a produrre solo il 5% dell’energia consumata, senza alcun beneficio per i cambiamenti climatici.	But even if we did that, it gets back to that 5% of the energy. It will have no impact on climate change.
64	E’ chiaro che perché ne avesse, dovrebbero coprire almeno il 20% della produzione.	It is very well considered that if we want to impact climate change, nuclear would have to take up 20% of the energy. Just like renewables.
65	Ma perché la produzione di energia sia per il 20% nucleare, dovremmo costruire 3 centrali atomiche ogni 30 giorni per i prossimi 60 anni.	But, in order for nuclear power to be responsible of 20% of the energy, we have to put under construction three nuclear power plants every thirty days for the next sixty year.
66	Capito?	Did you hear that?
67	Duemila centrali atomiche.	That is two thousand power plants.
68	Tre nuove centrali ogni mese per sessant’anni.	Three news one every thirty days for the next sixty years.
69	Non sappiamo ancora cosa fare con le scorie.	We don’t know how to get rid of nuclear waste.
70	Siamo nell'energia atomica da 60 anni e l'industria ci aveva detto: "Costruite gli impianti e dateci tempo sufficiente per capire come trasportare e stoccare le scorie".	We are sixty years into nuclear power. The industry told us sixty years ago: "build the power plants, then give us enough time, we will figure out a way to dispose nuclear waste".
71	Sessant'anni dopo questa industria ci dice "Fidatevi ancora di noi, possiamo farcela", ma ancora non sanno come fare.	Sixty years later, this industry is saying: "trust us again, we can do it". But the still don’t know how to get rid of the nuclear waste.
72	L'agenzia internazionale per l'energia atomica dice che potremmo avere carenza di uranio tra il 2025 e il 2035, facendo cosi' morire i 439 impianti nucleare che producono il 5% dell'energia del mondo.	The International Atomic Energy Commission says we face potential uranium deficit, between 2025 and 2035, just for the existing 439 power plants that make up only 5% of the energy.
73	Potremmo prendere l'uranio che abbiamo e convertirlo in plutonio.	We could take the uranium we have and recycle it to plutonium.
74	Ma avremmo il pericolo del terrorismo nucleare.	But then we will have the threat of nuclear terrorism.
75	Vogliamo davvero avere plutonio in tutto il mondo in un'epoca di potenziali attacchi terroristici?	Do we really want plutonium all over the world in an age of potential terrorist attacks?
76	Credo sia folle.	I think that is insane.
77	E infine, una cosa che tutti dovrebbero discutere col vicino di casa:	Then, finally, this is what all the people that watch this should discuss with their neighbours.
78	non abbiamo acqua!	We don’t have that water.
79	Questo le aziende energetiche lo sanno ma la gente no.	This is something that utilities companies know, but the public doesn’t know.
80	Prendete la Francia, la quintessenza dell'energia atomica, prodotta per il 70%.	Take France. France is the quintessential nuclear power company.Over 70% of their electricity comes from nuclear power plants.
81	Questo e' quello che la gente non sa:	Here is what the public does not know.
82	il 40% di tutta l'acqua consumata in Francia lo scorso anno, e' servita a raffreddare i reattori nucleari.	40% of all the water consumed in France last year went to cooling the nuclear reactors, for their nuclear industry.
83	Il 40%.	40% of all the water in France.
84	Vi ricordate tre anni fa, quando molti anziani in Francia morirono durante l'estate perche' l'aria condizionata era scarsa?	You recall thee years ago, when all the elderly people died in France during the summer because of the air conditioning - they didn’t have it?
85	Quello che non sapete e' che non ci fu abbastanza acqua per raffreddare i reattori nucleari, che dovettero diminuire la loro produzione di elettricita'.	What you don’t know is there was not enough water to cool the nuclear reactors. So that nuclear reactors had to move down the amount of electricity they where putting out.
86	Dove pensano di trovare, l'Italia e gli altri Paesi, l'acqua per raffreddare gli impianti se non l'ha trovata la Francia?	So where is Italy or any other country going to find the water? If France doesn’t even have it.
87	Quello che dobbiamo fare è democratizzare l’energia.	So, what we need to do is to democratize energy.
88	La terza rivoluzione industriale significa dare potere alle persone e per la generazione cresciuta con la Rete questo è la conclusione e il completamento di questa rivoluzione, proprio come ora parliamo in Internet, centinaia di persone sono in Internet, ed è tutto gratuito, e questi possono creare il più grande, decentralizzato, network televisivo, open source, condiviso...perché non possiamo farlo con l’energia?	The third industrial revolution, this distributed revolution is power to the people. And for generation that grew up on the Internet this is the conclusion and completion of that revolution. Just like we can now rely on things like this Internet: we are now sitting and talking on the Internet at each other and you can have hundreds of thousand of people on the Internet and it is all free and you don’t have to rely on some centralized television network and it is all open source and you are sharing it. Is it correct?Why can’t we do that with energy?
89	L’Italia è l’Arabia Saudita delle energie rinnovabili!	Italy is the Saudi Arabia of renewable energy.
90	Ci sono così tante e distribuite energie rinnovabili nel vostro Paese! Mi meraviglio quando vengo nel vostro Paese e vedo che non vi state muovendo nella direzione in cui si muove la Spagna, aggressivamente verso le energie rinnovabili.	There is some much distributed renewable energy in your country, it frustrates me when I come to your country and I see that is not moving like Spain is moving, for example. Spain is moving aggressively into renewable energy. All across the regions.
91	Per esempio, voi avete il Sole!	For example. You have Sun.
92	Avete così tanto sole da Roma a Bari.	You have so much Sun from Rome to Bari.
93	Avete il Sole!	You have Sun.
94	Siete una penisola, avete il vento tutto il tempo, avete il mare che vi circonda, avete ricche zone geotermiche in Toscana, biomasse da Bolzano in su nel nord Italia, avete la neve, per l’idroelettrico, dalle Alpi.	You are a peninsula, you have wind coming in all the time.You have the ocean waves surrounding you on all sides. You have rich geothermal deposits in Tuscany. You have forestry waste up in Bolzano and Northern Italy.You have snow for hydro from the Alps.
95	Voi avete molta più energia di quella che vi serve, in energie rinnovabili!	You just are overflowing with renewable energy possibilities.
96	Non la state usando...io non capisco.	You are not using them. I don’t understand why.
97	L’Italia potrebbe. Credo che, umilmente, quel che posso dire al governo italiano è: a che gioco volete giocare?	I guess the bottom line is, what I would say to the Italian government is: what is your game plan?
98	Se il vostro piano è restare nelle vecchie energie, l’Italia non sarà competitiva e non potrà godere dell’effetto moltiplicatore sull’economia della terza rivoluzione industriale per muoversi nella nuova rivoluzione economica e si troverà a correre dietro a molti altri Paesi col passare del XXI secolo.	If your only game plan is to stay on the old energies, then Italy will not be competitive and will not get the economic multiplier effect of moving into the door to a new economic revolution and will fall further and further behind other countries as we proceed into the twenty-first century.
99	Se invece l’Italia deciderà che è il momento di iniziare a muoversi verso la terza rivoluzione industriale, le opportunità per l’Italia e i suoi abitanti saranno enormi.Da anni seguo il tuo sito, vorrei che ci fossero voci come la tua in altri Paesi.	But if Italy decides that it is important to move into the sunrise energies and industries of the third industrial revolution, the opportunities are enormous for Italy. And enormous for the citizens of Italy. I have been keeping in touch with what you have been doing with this website in the Internet now for a number of years, and I wish we had some voices like him [Beppe Grillo] in other countries.
100	Ha permesso a cosi' tante persone di impegnarsi insieme...credo sia istruttivo rispetto alla strada che dobbiamo intraprendere."	That allows some many people to become engaged and it is instructive of the way we need to go.
101	Jeremy Rifkin	Jeremy Rifkin

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